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JR96CK
Joined: 03 Apr 1998
Posts: 789
Location: Texas
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Quote:JR96CK might find this useful...
Duly noted! Very interesting thread.
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| Sat May 09, 2009 8:04 pm |
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Aloicious
Joined: 14 Apr 2007
Posts: 1618
Location: 96, C1500, LS31, T56, 24x CNP/LS2 coils, Whipple, 411, EFILive, MPFI, ZZ4, Trutrac, 4.88...etc
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CrazyHoe wrote:MoS2 is unreactive, so it shouldn't cause any problems with seals.
I would also caution on the amount to use as it will raise the oil pressure. You are adding a "solid" to the oil after all....
JR96CK might find this useful...
Unfortunately, I wouldn't recommend it for your T56. It might cause the syncros to slip too much and not mesh properly.
Interesting...
A non-settling colloidal dispersion of Super Fine grade Molybdenum disulphide (Moly) lubricant
http://www.lubritek.com/product/DSL315
thats what I was wondering about with the manual trans, the blocker rings do require friction to engage the synchros and a loss of some friction between the rings could cause shifting problems. this may be an issue with many manual transmissions, not just the T56.
etiher way definantly something to look into for the engine at least. and with only ~1-2 micron particles, most of it would probably make it through the filter too and keep it circulating for better coating.
if you mix that powdered moly in to make your own oil concoction, I would think using a higher viscocity oil would promote better suspension, like maybe straight 30 or 40w. or even perhaps something like 5w-40, which would be thiner when cold to allow mixing of settled particles easier, then as the oil warms it would maintain the suspension....at least it makes sense in my mind. I would question that non-settling moly mix stuff unless you could find out what they use in it.
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| Sat May 09, 2009 8:11 pm |
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CrazyHoe
Joined: 19 Feb 2008
Posts: 2670
Location: Mtl; '98 2dr4x4 Tahoe, L31,Hookers Long T, 0411,EFIlive, 4L80-E,dual 3" pipes,next:marine+Whipp
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Aloicious wrote: I would question that non-settling moly mix stuff unless you could find out what they use in it.
I didn't suggest it for engine application, I mentioned it as an example that it is possible to have the molyb mixed up and non-settling.
1.5um particle size molyb should not have a problem passing trough oil filters. Particle size of 10um-20um are at the limit of what filters can capture
Interesting post about filters:
dholly wrote:Most oil filters have filter elements made of paper and are effective down to about 40 microns. The advanced filters have composite elements made of paper, cellulose, and fiberglass, and are effective down to 15 microns or less. Typically these advanced filters also have more surface area on their elements, and therefore more capacity. To put this into perspective, 25 microns is about 1 thousandth of an inch. Below are pics of a paper element and a synthethic element expanded 50 times. In these pictures, a 30 micron particle would be about this big: o
In your motor, most parts like pistons, bearings, and bushings are set up with a clearance of 1 thousandth of an inch, so to the moving lubricated parts a 25 micron particle is as big as the oil film, and will scratch both surfaces. We don't want particulate in our engines 25 microns or bigger. Some companies claim that even particles as small as 1 to 5 microns cause premature engine wear, but I don't find the evidence on this topic to be compelling, either for or against. Anyway, you can see now that standard paper filters are marginal. The paper filters let through about 10 to 20 times as much 25 micron stuff as the synthetic filters do, and about 5 to 10 times as much 15 micron stuff.
It's not enough to ask a company to what size particle their filter is effective. Imagine a screen door with some oil on it. Obviously something the size of a golf ball or fly is simply not getting through. However, even particles which are a tenth the size of the holes sometimes don't get through - spray your screen door with a garden hose and see what comes off. Oil filters are similar, except the holes are random in size, not perfectly regular like a screen door. So, company A says "Our filters are effective down to 7 microns." What does this mean? If "effective" means "we catch 15%," well, I'm not impressed. You need an efficiency number along with the size number before you can really think you know something. No filter is 100% effective - this would require either very regular holes, which are currently impossible to mass produce, or very small holes on average, which would block too much oil flow.
Some filters, however, ARE clearly better than others. For example, Purolator makes filters in three qualities, standard, premium, and Pure One. Purolator states that their premium filters capture 97.8% @ 30 microns and 85.2% @ 20 microns. These numbers are typical of a normal paper element oil filter. The Purolator Pure One filters capture 99.8% @ 30 microns and 99.2% @ 20 microns. This means the Premium filter is letting through eleven times as many 30 micron particles as the Pure One, and eighteen times as many 20 micron particles. Clearly, the Pure One filter is doing a considerably better job of cleaning the oil than the premium filter.
The way the Pure One achieves this filtering efficiency is by combining three different types of materials in their filter: paper like everyone else to catch the big stuff, and cellulose and fiberglass fibers to fill in the "large" holes in the paper with their much finer fibers. Filters like this are now made by Purolator, Hastings (marketed as AMS), and Champion (marketed as Mobil 1 and Bosch). Accordingly, the best oil filters are the Purolator Pure One, Mobil-1, AMSOil, and Bosch. If you use one of these filters with one of the commercial synthetic oils, IMO you have the best protection money can buy.
Champion says the Bosch is a 15 micron filter, and the Mobil-1 is a 10 micron filter but gives no efficiency numbers. AMS claims their filter is effective to "7 to 10 microns," but again without any efficiency number. SAE tests would tend to indicate that the Purolator has a slight advantage in filtering over the other filters named here. Additionally, the Mobil-1 (M1-110) has excellent filter media but only 60 sq. in. surface area (less than a stock filter), vs. PureOne (PL14610) with 110 sq.in. The important thing is, all of these filters have performance at 30 microns which is far superior to a paper only filter, and all of these filters have performance at 20 microns which is also far superior to a paper filter. So, bottom line, these filters will clean your oil far better than a paper-only filter.
Be aware too, all filters have to undergo SAE (Society of Automotive Engineers) tests to prove that they meet the engine manufacturer's requirements. The SAE J806 test uses a single-pass test, checking for contaminant holding capacity, size of contaminant particles trapped, and ability to maintain clean oil. As an amendment of the J806 test, the multi-pass test also looks for filter life in hours, contaminant capacity in grams, and efficiency based on weight. The efficiency of the filter is determined only by weight through gravimetric measurement of the filtered test liquid. Typical numbers for paper filter elements are 85% (single pass) and 80% (multi-pass).
A new test, the SAE J1858, provides both particle counting and gravimetric measurement to measure filter capacity and efficiency. Actual counts of contaminant particles by size are obtained every 10 minutes, both upstream (before the filter) and downstream (after the filter), for evaluation. From this data filtration ratio and efficiency for each contaminant particle size can be determined as well as dust capacity and pressure loss as a function of time. Typical numbers for paper element filters are 40% at 10 microns, 60% at 20 microns, 93% at 30 microns, and 97% at 40 microns. This means a paper filter passes about 25 times as many 30 micron particles as a Pure One. I would love to see these numbers for the various available filters, but no filter manufacturers release them. Hmm, wonder why???
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dholly
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post Feb 18 2008, 12:17 PM
Post #33
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Location: upstate NY
Drives: '08 Sonata Ltd 3.3
The following info (and that in my previous post) was gleaned from researching filters for my G35 6mt sedan. Obviously, you will need to cross the specific filter number for your application, however, I thought sharing the info may be helpful.
This is what happens to a 'Fram-style' filter with cardboard end caps, with only slight squeeze between thumb and forefinger...
Obviously, not an issue with the PureOne which utilizes metal end caps...
Also, be very aware the Anti-Drain Back Valve PSI ratings on any oil filter you use must be as close as possible to OEM filter specs. For example, while both filters cross to my engine, the PureOne is rated 17psi vs. the M-110 at 25psi. OEM is 14psi and, since I'm using synth oil in a cold climate, I the lower psi of the PureOne is more appropriate for my application.
Note that anti-drain back valves are not all alike. Many oil filter brands have a really cheap piece of plastic that doesn't seal very well at all. Below is a picture of the Pure-One and the Mobil-1 anti-drainback valves. Both filters use the superior silicon rubber, however, the Pure-One has a larger core and a convex shaped mating surface to guarantee an excellent fit. The Mobil-1 has a flat seal and a flat mating surface which do not inspire the same confidence. The Mobil-1 anti-drainback valve isn't bad, it's clearly superior to that of most other filters..
The Purolators use superior media and are good, well made filters IMHO. However, notice the metal centertube does not extend the entire length of the filter. Like a cardboard end cap, unsupported folded media must take enough psi to open the bypass or failure will occur. While some may consider this cause for concern, I would note that the PureOne media is heavily epoxied at both ends and also appears to have some sort of coating on the media which acts a stiffener. I stuck a small metal rod into the opening and put what I feel is a fairly heavy amount of force on the center tube attempting to dislodge it, but it did not move.
In the end, I found (10) filters 'crossed' to my OEM filter #. Applying the high construction and filter media standards outlined above then eliminating all without silicone rubber ADBVs, I found only (3) filters for my G35 with bypass PSI the same as the OEM filter specs:
- Wix 51356
- NAPA Gold 21356
- Purolator L14610
Hope that helps, cheers.
This post has been edited by dholly: Feb 18 2008, 12:41 PM
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| Sat May 09, 2009 9:13 pm |
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Bent1
Joined: 01 Jan 2000
Posts: 1711
Location: SF Bayarea CA 1996 K3500/Sub/7.4L
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At that particle size it takes years to totally settle out. Made a stir stick
out of a metal rod bent so that that end would go into the bottles
and jugs. Then chuck it into a drill motor.
Yes, everything with a clutch is NOT a good usage.
I've mixed it with ATF for manual tranny gear oil and it works well.
In that it reduced the box temp by 'feel' and, yes, you can then beat
the syncros if you really 'push' it, but not all that often.
Have mixed powdered with diff gear oil to solve diff whine. Instantly
too (about 50 miles).
Again, it takes too long to tell and the best way is to see the engine
temp drop, but that is only small displacement, as the V8's I've used
it on didn't show much of an eng temp drop (think I see it, but then
wonder if just wanting to see that). Most notable is my buddy engineer
(Virgina, govmnt stuff) who came out here & bought a Honda. After
500 miles breakin, tried 8oz and within about 10 minutes saw his
temp gauge drop about 7*F. Nothing else was touched/changed. Lost
track of Mark now that I think about him.
A bit more than +10 years youngsters...since about 1969 IIRC...
Gads...now I'm having to keep up you guys on this...
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| Sun May 10, 2009 7:15 am |
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CrazyHoe
Joined: 19 Feb 2008
Posts: 2670
Location: Mtl; '98 2dr4x4 Tahoe, L31,Hookers Long T, 0411,EFIlive, 4L80-E,dual 3" pipes,next:marine+Whipp
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Bent1 wrote:
Again, it takes too long to tell and the best way is to see the engine
temp drop, but that is only small displacement, as the V8's I've used
it on didn't show much of an eng temp drop (think I see it, but then
wonder if just wanting to see that). Most notable is my buddy engineer
(Virgina, govmnt stuff) who came out here & bought a Honda. After
500 miles breakin, tried 8oz and within about 10 minutes saw his
temp gauge drop about 7*F. Nothing else was touched/changed. Lost
track of Mark now that I think about him.
A bit more than +10 years youngsters...since about 1969 IIRC...
Gads...now I'm having to keep up you guys on this... 
Kind of hard to see a positive effect on a water cooled engine since the temperature is regulated by the thermostat.
But on an air cooled engine (such as Jame's VW Bug  ) the benefits should be easily noticed.
1969 eh? And only now you tell me about this.
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| Sun May 10, 2009 7:45 am |
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Bent1
Joined: 01 Jan 2000
Posts: 1711
Location: SF Bayarea CA 1996 K3500/Sub/7.4L
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CrazyHoe wrote:
Kind of hard to see a positive effect on a water cooled engine since the temperature is regulated by the thermostat.
But on an air cooled engine (such as Jame's VW Bug ) the benefits should be easily noticed.
1969 eh? And only now you tell me about this. 
Yes...IF...the cooling system components and their performance was 'fixed'...but...it
is not.
There is a small hole in all thermostats that allow flow when closed. To purge air
bubbles, to allow the stat to get up to temp sooner, etc.
That small amount of flow is always there.
So if the radiator size is fixed, air flow fixed and the temp differential between
the coolant and air fixed, sure thing in a kinda sorta way...
Now toss in reduced friction and less heat generated via that route. Ditto the
BTUs necessary to go at whatever speed on what ever ambient conditions.
Then note that automotive systems are designed to maintain the 'minimum'
operating temp, not the max.
With the reduced friction and the constants above, the temp will drop when
flowing through that fixed hole size. Once the valve opens, then variable
and the friction is lost in the noise.
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| Mon May 11, 2009 7:17 am |
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CrazyHoe
Joined: 19 Feb 2008
Posts: 2670
Location: Mtl; '98 2dr4x4 Tahoe, L31,Hookers Long T, 0411,EFIlive, 4L80-E,dual 3" pipes,next:marine+Whipp
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Went to Nappa today, snooping around, guess what I found?... German oil:
Synthoil Premium 5 W-40
- long service life for the engine due to very high level of protection against wear
- miscible and compatible with commercially-available engine oils
- rapid oil delivery at low temperatures
- very high lubrication reliability at high and low temperatures
- very high shear and ageing stability
- outstanding engine cleanliness
- smooth engine running
- saves petrol and reduces pollutant emission
- optimum oil pressure at all engine speeds
- tested with catalytic converters and proven performance with turbochargers
- extremely low evaporation losses
Intended use
For highload manual and auxiliary trans-missions, particularly modern transaxlesystems and axle drives.
Clearing
API GL 5
LIQUI MOLY advise this product for vehicles with the following specifications: MIL-L 2105 C ; MIL-L 2105 D
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| Wed Jun 03, 2009 11:43 am |
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Bent1
Joined: 01 Jan 2000
Posts: 1711
Location: SF Bayarea CA 1996 K3500/Sub/7.4L
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Great find...but...still have manual gear box and diff (non clutch) in my stock.
About 2 gallons of the concentrated stuff.
Am running low on engine oil additive, which doesn't need to be added
at each engine oil change. Dependent on how driven. I usually remember
to redo it around 20K or so.
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| Wed Jun 03, 2009 1:41 pm |
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1999 Tahoe 4x4
Joined: 15 Dec 2007
Posts: 544
Location: Torrance, CA
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 Call me crazy story
I'm using regular Penzoil 5W-30 and I always did.
Since the last oil change (exactly since) my oil gauge reads a little higher. Before it ALWAYS used to read 20psi at warm-idle and 40 at warm-2000 rpm. But now it is at least one notch more. First I thought it is because I overfilled it with about one quart (I just put in 5 quarts after oil+filter change without checking). But that little overfill is already burned by now and the pressure still did not drop back to "normal".
Did Penzoil change their formula and included some of this good stuff of yours? Mysterious.
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| Wed Jun 03, 2009 6:50 pm |
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Bent1
Joined: 01 Jan 2000
Posts: 1711
Location: SF Bayarea CA 1996 K3500/Sub/7.4L
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 Molybdenum disulfide is a friction reducer..aka less wear
and has an oblique relationship to PSI.
PSI is a function of the oil pump flow (both PSI and GPH),
the tolerances of the engine oiling system and the pump
PSI control system (bypass or relief valve & the spring
tension on that valve).
Oil viscosity and film strength will also factor PSI, as the oil will
resist 'leaking' out of the galleries, journals, bearings, etc.
Additive package is all about viscosity, film strength and corrosion
prohibitors in addition to the base oil stock (dino or synthetic, and/or
it's purity...that famous Mobil vs Castrol law suit...or was it Amsoil
vs Castrol....forgot which).
Loss of PSI from wear is what molyb helps. I don't think it can increase
PSI as an after fact. It can help reduce friction, which will reduce heat
generation and allow freer rev'ing, etc, but again, don't think will increase
PSI.
Maybe your oil has some new/better addtive package that is more stable
over a wider temp range. Therefore holds PSI better.
High piston pressure with low engine oil PSI has a potential of metal to
metal. Mainly at the crank journals. A few times kinda sorta okay, but
too often and one time it will grab and then spin a bearing. Why some folks
have their engine oil analyzed...mainly looking for certain metal, which
means it has gone metal to metal, where a good working order will have
those bearing journals floating on a film of engine oil.
The width, gap, GPH/PSI, RPM, etc are calculated against the 'expected'
piston area/PSI worst case (back fire, etc). Boy Racers like us will have
much higher forces than 'normal' and need/want as much PSI as we can
get.
Break in is mainly for the cylinder walls against both the piston and it's
rings (mainly). A bit to look for metal shavings if there is some misalignment
of the crank/block/rods/etc. Little to do with engine oil PSI here. Maybe
up in the cam/lifter, but they are usually well oiled and not prone to
wear.
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| Wed Jun 03, 2009 7:25 pm |
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ADFD1
Joined: 21 Jun 2009
Posts: 49
Location: WA
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Hi and thanks for allowing me to join this Forum
My curiosity for a moly add lead me here. A buddy has given me some moly powder the UF stuff from Rosemill, that he uses to coat bullets. I would like to mix up a batch to add to a 5 qt sump. How much do you guys suggest I add? Reading through the posts I really didn't see a specific amount, although it is a little early in the morning.
BTW happy Fathers Day to all you Dads!
AD
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| Sun Jun 21, 2009 6:01 am |
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CrazyHoe
Joined: 19 Feb 2008
Posts: 2670
Location: Mtl; '98 2dr4x4 Tahoe, L31,Hookers Long T, 0411,EFIlive, 4L80-E,dual 3" pipes,next:marine+Whipp
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Welcome to PPF.
It's difficult to answer that question since only one member has experience with moly in this application. And it was bought pre-mixed.
There was one ebay store that was selling moly for this application but has since closed....
There is one web site selling and this is what they provide for 4-5 quarts: (look like they were the E-bay store....)
The container looks about the size of a AA battery.
So that would be what?
About an once?
Good luck, you beat me to it, I was going to buy some but I have a lot on my plate right now....
If you can, take a picture of your oil pressure @ operating temperature.
At idle then at 2000 rpm, before and after moly.
Here's the instructions from the web site on how to "instill" the moly
Apart from the bad English, looks reasonable.
Instillation:
1.) Empty the contents of one (1) bottle in to a quart of motor oil, and shake it VIGOROUSLY for one minuet, or until all the material from the bottle of SUPER FRICTION FIGHTER (engine oil additive) is equally distributed in that quart of oil.
* To know the proper number of quarts of crank case oil for your particular vehicle you may need to check with the manufacture, a professional mechanic, or the appropriate work shop manual for your vehicle.
2.) It’s my experience that the first quart of oil kind of wets the oil filler tube allowing the maximum amount of the Super Friction Fighter to “slide” down the oil filler tube. The remaining 2 to 3 quarts of oil help “wash” any of the suspended Super Friction Fighter down the filler tube.
3.) After insulation / refilling the crank case with the proper volume of oil (number of quarts) it’s recommended that you then start up the vehicle and run the motor (preferably drive the vehicle) for a 10-15 minuet period. This amount of “run time” helps to assure that the Super Friction Fighter is equally distributed through out ALL oil in the crank case, and has ALREADY started working.
4.) After the original 10-15 minuet run period (just after insulation) continue to drive your vehicle as you have and would normally.
We would recommend that when refilling an engine with a 4 to5 quart capacity (4 quarts of oil would normally be an oil change with out a new oil filter, and a 5 quart re-fill would normally be with the changing of the oil filter) that you install the treated quart of oil as the second or third quart of oil installed.
_______________________________________
Side note,
I just got some ARP assembly lube which is moly based.
Application: camshaft & cam bearings, lifters, push rods, rocker arms, valve stems, valve guides, gears, bushings, press fitting.
________________________________________
German oil with moly:
Lubro Moly 10W-40 MoS2 Anti-Friction Motor Oil 5 Liters
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| Sun Jun 21, 2009 7:06 am |
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ADFD1
Joined: 21 Jun 2009
Posts: 49
Location: WA
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Thanks for the reply and the welcome,
I was looking at oils that contain moly such as Red Line, and Motul and figured somewhere around 600-1000ppm would be a good dose. That would equal about 1-1.5 teaspoons, according to a buddy who helped me with the math. Now the question is, is the product from the E-Bay store a one time shock treatment? Does the stuff really plate to the metal and not need to be replenished at each OC? I must say I am extremely interested in the product, and 1 lb will go a very long way. I want to gather as much info as I can before I dive into this.
AD
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| Sun Jun 21, 2009 7:14 am |
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Bent1
Joined: 01 Jan 2000
Posts: 1711
Location: SF Bayarea CA 1996 K3500/Sub/7.4L
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Hi and welcome to the forum
I've been using Molybdenum Disulfide since the lat 60's and love the stuff.
Bought a 'life time' supply (I thought) when my supplier went out of biz.
Real benefits, but haven't been able to find definitive documentation from
a 'credible' source (to me), yet.
Most of the current crop of suppliers smells too much like snake oil salesman
and hoping to weed them out. Issue is how much, what particle size, etc are
they putting in their products. Generally a one time application with an every once
in a while, as the stuff does wear off in high/extreme pressure spots....but...their
revenue stream needs a constant, so tell you to buy and/add it in each oil change.
Think the suppliers to these snake oil folks will be it, but think they only want
to sell in tonnage and/or not rock their boat and lose their sales to these
snakes.
Tough to tell, as the benefits don't really show up till tens of thousands of
later. I've noted the reduction in engine coolant temps for small displacement
ICEs, but not detectable on larger engines. *ALL* of the military and black box
stuff I designed for specified Moly in/on anything that needed lube, even in
'weightless' applications. At that time had a MGB that ran hot (cam, ported, polished,
milled head, headers, etc) and instantly saw the coolant temp drop about 7*F after
putting in Moly and ran it for about 15 minutes. Di NOTHING else, other than
to add moly to the engine oil.
HUGE difference in gear boxes and even open diff's.
I've been using it in my air guns for decades and do notice a difference there.
Ex wouldn't allow firearms, so not much experience there.
CrazyHoe has found some interesting sources, but haven't had
the time to check them out yet.
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| Sun Jun 21, 2009 8:32 am |
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ADFD1
Joined: 21 Jun 2009
Posts: 49
Location: WA
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I have about 4 ounces of the MOS2 Ultra Fine. I was thinking of adding about 2 teaspoons worth to a 5 qt sump, mixing it all into 1 quart but blending it in vs shaking the container. I mixed up a small amount that would give about a 600 ppm count and added it to a mower that was smoking on start up, I'll call it a fluke but the mower is no longer smoking on start up. Someone somewhere will know the golden amount for an effective treatment.
Anyone adding Tungsten Disulfide or Boron Nitride to oil? Or is moly still the best?
Thanks!
AD
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| Sun Jun 21, 2009 12:49 pm |
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CrazyHoe
Joined: 19 Feb 2008
Posts: 2670
Location: Mtl; '98 2dr4x4 Tahoe, L31,Hookers Long T, 0411,EFIlive, 4L80-E,dual 3" pipes,next:marine+Whipp
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To bad Ben doesn't have his physicists handy, he could have analyzed those options...
Looks like Tungsten Disulfide is the new kid on the block.... Don't know if it coats like Molyb???
http://www.lowerfriction.com/index.php
Comparison between Molybdenum Disulfide (MoS2) & Tungsten Disulfide (WS2):
Tungsten Disulfide (WS2) is one of the most lubricious materials known to science. With Coefficient of Friction at 0.03, it offers excellent dry lubricity unmatched to any other substance. It can also be used in high temperature and high pressure applications. It offers temperature resistance from -450º F (-270º C) to 1200º F (650º C) in normal atmosphere and from -305º F (-188º C) to 2400º F (1316º C) in Vacuum. Load bearing property of coated film is extremely high at 300,000 psi.
Tungsten Disulfide (WS2) can be used instead of Molybdenum Disulfide (MoS2)and Graphite in almost all applications, and even more. Molybdenum and Tungsten are from same chemical family. Tungsten is heavier and more stable. Molybdenum Disulfide (Also known as Moly Disulfide) till now has been extremely popular due to cheaper price, easier availability and strong and innovative marketing. Tungsten Disulfide is not new chemical and has been around as long as Moly, and is used extensively by NASA, military, aerospace and automotive industry.
Till few years ago, price was Tungsten Disulfide was almost 10 times that of Molybdenum Disulfide. But since then price of Molybdenum Disulfide has doubled every six months. Now the prices of both chemicals are within comparable range. Now, it makes more economic sense to use superior dry lubricant (Tungsten Disulfide) and improve the quality and competitiveness of final product.
Tungsten Disulfide offers excellent lubrication under extreme conditions of Load, Vacuum and Temperature. The properties below show that Tungsten Disulfide offers excellent thermal stability and oxidation resistance at higher temperatures. WS2 has thermal stability advantage of 93ºC (200ºF) over MoS2. Coefficient of Friction of WS2 actually reduces at higher loads.
_____________________________________________________
Tungsten Disulfide
Tungsten Disulfide (WS2) can also be used in high temperature and high pressure applications. It offers temperature resistance from -450 deg F (-270º C) to 1200 deg F (650º C) in normal atmosphere and from -305 deg F (-188º C) to 2400º F (1316º C) in Vacuum. Load bearing ability of coated film is extremely high at 300,000 psi.
Tungsten Disulfide (WS2) can also be used instaed of Molybdenum Disulfide (MoS2). See comparison of WS2 / MoS2
Since the powder offers one of the lowest Coefficient of Friction (Dynamic @ 0.03 & Static @ 0.07), the applications are unlimited and could be tried with every conceivable idea. .
Two established ways the WS2 powder can be used are:
Mixing the WS2 powder with wet lubricants (such as oil, grease & other synthetic lubricants):
The powder can be mixed 1% to 15% v/v (as required) with grease or oil. This will enhance lubricity of the mixture and also improves High Temperature and Extreme Pressure properties of mixture. During the use, WS2 in the mixture will get coated on mating/moving parts, which in turn reduces friction and improves lubricity and load bearing ability for much longer cycles.
Coating the WS2 powder on a substrate requiring (dry) lubricity:
The powder can be coated by spraying (at 120 psi) the substrate with dry (& cool) pneumatic air. It does not require any binders and spraying can be done at normal room temperature. Coated film will be 0.5 micron thick. In an alternative application method, the powder can also be mixed with Isopropyl alcohol and this paste could be buffed to the substrate. The coating applications are already established in many areas such as Automotive parts, Racing Car Engine and other parts, Aerospace parts, Bearings (Linear, Ball, Roller etc), Shafts, Marine parts, Cutting Tools, Blades, Slitters, Knives, Mold release, Precision Gears, Valve components, Pistons, Chains, Machinery components and many other areas.
We can supply powder with Average Particle Size (fsss) in micron 0.4, 0.5, 0.6, 0.7, 0.8, 0.9, 1.0 & higher.
_______________________________
Hexagonal Boron Nitride (hBN)
Hexagonal Boron Nitride (hBN) is also known as ‘White Graphite’, has similar (hexagonal) crystal structure as of Graphite. This crystal structure provides excellent lubricating properties. hBN is much superior to Graphite and has following characteristics:
Excellent Lubricating Properties due to low Coefficient of Friction at 0.15 to 0.70
Good Chemical Inertness
Electrical Insulator
Thermal Conductor (result: better heat dissipation)
High Temperature Stability, 1000o C in Air, 1400o C in Vacuum and 1800o C in Inert gas
Low Thermal Expansion
Low Dielectric Constant
High Load bearing properties
Non-Wetting: hBN is not wetted by Glasses, Salts and (most) metals, therefore it provides strong resistance to chemical attack Easy Machineability (in hot pressed state). Complex shapes can be machined from hot pressed structure.
hBN powders are available in following particle sizes: 70 nm, 150 nm, 0.5 micron, 1.5 micron, 5 microns to 30 microns
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| Sun Jun 21, 2009 1:22 pm |
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ADFD1
Joined: 21 Jun 2009
Posts: 49
Location: WA
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The problem with TD I was told is the size of the particles are a little big and a high % of them might get trapped in the filter. The other problem I was told is they are also a little heavier and it doesn't stay suspended in the oil as well as moly. The ceramic coatings Boron Nitride is the new kid on the block, and I was wondering if anyone has tried it in oil, or if anyone has any knowledge about the product. Problem with contacting any of the companies that sell these products is they are all trying to "sell" them.
AD
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| Sun Jun 21, 2009 4:03 pm |
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CrazyHoe
Joined: 19 Feb 2008
Posts: 2670
Location: Mtl; '98 2dr4x4 Tahoe, L31,Hookers Long T, 0411,EFIlive, 4L80-E,dual 3" pipes,next:marine+Whipp
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ADFD1 wrote:The problem with TD I was told is the size of the particles are a little big and a high % of them might get trapped in the filter.
AD
The compagny I listed offers TD in:
Average Particle Size (fsss) in micron 0.4, 0.5, 0.6, 0.7, 0.8, 0.9, 1.0
I think 5 microns and less shouldn't pose a problem... Synthetic oil filters filter from 10 microns and up...
The question is, does it plate?
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| Mon Jun 22, 2009 5:29 am |
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daddy_dandy
Joined: 08 Apr 2008
Posts: 1586
Location: buy me a beer
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The question of how much to use keeps getting repeated. Are there any downfalls to using too much?
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| Mon Jun 22, 2009 6:13 am |
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Aloicious
Joined: 14 Apr 2007
Posts: 1618
Location: 96, C1500, LS31, T56, 24x CNP/LS2 coils, Whipple, 411, EFILive, MPFI, ZZ4, Trutrac, 4.88...etc
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I don't know about using too much but in the clip that 'hoe posted earlier, it mentioned up to 15% WS2.
Quote:Mixing the WS2 powder with wet lubricants (such as oil, grease & other synthetic lubricants):
The powder can be mixed 1% to 15% v/v (as required) with grease or oil. This will enhance lubricity of the mixture and also improves High Temperature and Extreme Pressure properties of mixture. During the use, WS2 in the mixture will get coated on mating/moving parts, which in turn reduces friction and improves lubricity and load bearing ability for much longer cycles.
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| Mon Jun 22, 2009 6:26 am |
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